A Tim Sebastian (Conflict Zone)
interviews Saeb Erekat (Palestinian Authority).
Saeb Erekat, chief negotiator for the
Palestinian Authority, and redundant since the PA refuses to negotiate with
Israel, or even talk
with the US Administration, talked to Tim Sebastian of
Conflict Zone about Palestinian “democracy,” a strange concept since they haven’t
had national elections since 2006. They also have a deep and unbridgeable political
chasm between the PLO-Fatah Palestinian Authority in Ramallah and the
Hamas-Islamic Jihad control of the Gaza Strip as a result of a coup d’etat in
2007. 67% are dissatisfied with the performance of the Palestinian Authority
.62% want Mahmoud Abbas to resign. The latest polling show that 80& believe
there is widespread corruption in the PA, nepotism, bribery, abuse of public
funds, lack of transparency.
The Palestinian watchdog, Aman, issued
a blistering report that the Palestinian Legislative Council has been
dysfunctional for the past eleven years which has led to the loss of the most
important official instrument of control and accountability.”
“The Palestinian Legislative Council
has been dysfunctional for the past 11 years which led to…the loss of the most
important official instrument of control and accountability.”
Erekat: “Do we have corruption? Yes.”
Sebastian” “In 2017, Shawqi Al-Issa,
Miister of Agriculture said “It was not permitted to carry out any action to
reduce corruption. Well qualified officials were removed, while those suspected
of corruption had their positions strengthened.”
Erekat: I know Shawqi Al-Issa. He is
in the opposition and he is entitled to say whatever he wants.”
Sebastian: “What about the case of
Palestinian Airlines? Aman said that the Palestinian Treasury continued to pay
salaries to hundreds of employees of Palestinian Airlines. There is, of course,
no Palestinian Airlines.
Erekat; “Our four planes were
destroyed by the Israelis, and we have people working there…”
Sebastian: “Hundreds of salaries.”
Sebastian: “Hundreds of salaries.”
Erekat: “Not hundreds…”
Sebastian: “It’s a big fraud, Mr
Erekat. Human Rights Watch has just released a credible report of shocking
human rights abuses by your security services. They say there are 147 cases as
you know well. Shocking abuse in violation of international human rights law,
including torture, that contravene the international legal obligations that you
took when you signed up to the Human Rights Treaty over the last five years.
Torture extensively documented may amount to a crime against humanity. (HRW. October
23, 2018). You have torture on a daily basis and you call yourself a democracy?”
Erekat: “We are acting on this.”
Sebastian: “I got the same answer
from you for the last 10, 15, 20 years. “
Erekat: “You know me, Tim.”
Sebastian: “Yes, I do, and you make
the same excuses for these abuses year after year.”
Erekat: “I live in Jericho because I
refuse to rent an apartment at the expense of the Palestinians.”
Sebastian: “You live in Jericho and in Jericho some of the harshest treatments reported by detainees take place in Jericho. At the Joint Security Committee Detention Center. This is Human Rights Watch reporting. Officers force prisoners into painful stress positions locked in solidarity confinement. A young man from the Balata refugee camp said he was twice subjected to electric shock treatment and once had a cord tied around his genitals. So much for signing the convention against torture.”
Sebastian: “You live in Jericho and in Jericho some of the harshest treatments reported by detainees take place in Jericho. At the Joint Security Committee Detention Center. This is Human Rights Watch reporting. Officers force prisoners into painful stress positions locked in solidarity confinement. A young man from the Balata refugee camp said he was twice subjected to electric shock treatment and once had a cord tied around his genitals. So much for signing the convention against torture.”
Erekat: “We are members of the
Convention Against Torture…”
Sebastian: “…and you violate it on a
regular basis.”
Erekat: “The 147 cases over three
years are being investigated. People who committes these atrocities will be
held accountable.”
Sebastian: “How many of these people
have been held accountable? How many? You can’t tell me. 3? 5? 7?”
Erekat: “Wait a minute. Security
officials were fired. They were demoted.”
Sebastian: “How many?”
Erekat: “I can’t give you a number,
but many.”
Sebastian: “You are also cracking
down on freedom of speech as well.”
Erekat: “How?”
Sebastian: “January of last year,
your security forces detained Faris Jabua, a student from Hebron about his
participation at a book event organized by the Islamic group at his university.
He’d already been arrested 5 times on charges that turned out to be false. You
go after these people again and again and again. He was taken on one occasion
to the Jericho Detention Center where officers alternated between kicking and
hitting him with a stick…”
Erekat smiled.
Sebastian: “You’re smiling.”
Erekat: “No, because I live in
Jericho and people wake me up at 2 am and 3 am and 4 am in the morning to tell
me their sons and their daughters are taken here and there and I go with them…”
Sebastian: “So you know what is going on.”
Erekat: “Of course! And I go and tell them to stop it in the
name of the President. We admit it. We don’t hide it.”
Sebastian: “Aren’t you ashamed of all this?”
Erekat: “In some cases I am ashamed. Yes. Sometimes I can because
I am a man of authority. I cannot
differentiate between freedom of expression and incitement. Sometimes we have
people who attack others because of their religion and so on and I’m ashamed of
it.”
Sebastian: “Is this what a future Palestinian state would
look like? Human rights abuses. Torture. Crackdown on free speech. Internet
control.”
Erekat: “The future Palestinian state will be the future of
democracy …human rights…transparency and the rule of law…This is my promise.”
Sebastian: “That’s very different from what you have now.”
Erekat: “No, no.no. With 6 million people living in the West Bank and in Gaza we have 147 cases and we hope that will be reduced…”
Sebastian: “That’s all we have time for. Saeb Erekat. Thank you very much.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLT6yxVwBEbi3l8n22yR_aXD49AM4W0O7b&v=-MJVJ4jyCQs
Barry Shaw, Senior Associate for Public Diplomacy at the
Israel Institute for Strategic Studies.
Author of ‘Fighting Hamas, BDS, and Anti-Semitism.’
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